February 18, 2009

[D&D 4E][Character] Veleno pt.2

The character creation has gone pretty straight so far. Surprisingly the Wizard's Character Builder is an acceptable tool for character making.

The only issue I've had is related to my multiclassing idea. Apparently to be a rogue-cleric you need a lot of stats up to 13, so in the end I'm a little ugly/unpleasant and not so smart.
Not a problem for the unpleasantness, but I hope some of the other guys will create a social guy or we are doomed to be stuck bu the plot.
Some more problem in roleplaying a guy with a normal intelligence, not because I'm so smart I can't fake some lack of ideas, but instead because I'm a (little too much) analytical player.

Rule-wise the worst thing is that I've give up some nifty bonus (mostly damage-related) to get some better armor and the multicalssing feature. Good that I'm human, 'cause the extra feat is reeeeally useful now.
The best thing is that the extra power of the human plus the extra power for the multiclass feature are stacking a lot of options for me in combat, even for the first level, not to mention the extra armor class will make me a little more resilient in close combat. Definitely I need to get some shield proficiency.

The final draft is somehow very different to what I've had in mind. Veleno is sturdier, tougher and a lot more brutal of the converted assassin I was picturing. Now I can visualize him killing a target in a tavern fight, covering his track in the ruckus, more than in a dark alley, wrapped in a black cloak, waiting for his pray.

Numbers give him a bad temper and a likeness to solve problems bashing heads.

That's not a real problem, cause I like when characters go to unexpected directions.

Said so, I'm very satisfied from Veleno, but I can also easily pinpoint some problem with 4E character creation.

1 My PC is not what I wanted. The options are limited and if I want to make exactly the character I've in mind I have to accept some big compromise (ex. sticking to a rogue class, just adding the faith as a flavor) or to plan the leveling carefully.

2 I'm not a cleric and never will be. I will have to play a cleric-wannabe all my life. That is fun for me, but I can picture it frustrating for a lot of people. Probably the cleric with the rogue multiclass is a better choice for someone.

Forgetting something?
Yeah, the sheet.


Now it's your turn. What do you think of Veleno? Have you ever used the Character builder and what you think of it? Character creation experiences similar or really different from mine?


  1. Ignore dex or use it:
    Ignore: go with heavy armor and the rogue build you chose. Change your str to 18, and dex to 13.
    Use: go with light armor which grants your dex bonus to AC. Change the rogue build so you use your dex bonus for attack and damage bonus. Brutal scoundrel may be a good option.

    I recommend using dexterity, style wise I prefer that for rogues. I would go with shortsword. Yes your damage drops from 1d8 to 1d6 (average of 1 point), but the prof bonus goes from +2 to +3. Also you will now use your dex bonus for att and damage which is higher. If you go dex, make sure you increase it at every opportunity (level 4, 8, 11...), this will keep your AC high.

  2. Some problem with the advice you gave me:
    Ignore: go with heavy armor and the rogue build you chose. Change your str to 18, and dex to 13.
    IMHO everything in this build is worse...
    With dex 13 and str 17 I lose 2 points of initiative, all my powers drop the attack value from +5 to +3 and the damages of 2-3 points.
    I gain some bonus with the basic attack, but who cares?
    Defenses goes from 13/16/12 to 14/14/12, losing 1 total point.

    Am I missing something?

  3. I think I was confused by the ruthless ruffian option. I know nothing about this, and thought you used your str instead of your dex on your powers. So does it add str and dex?

    I still think you should use light armor. It gives better movement, and you can take shield proficiency or hide armor prof, I recommend the shield. You may still want to look into dropping str to 13 and upping dex to 18, to give you the better att bonus. Damage wise it should be the same. Your fort drops 1, your ac would be 17(with light shield), ref 18 (with shield), will still 12

  4. Looking at your character sheet a bit more things look really good. The backstory supports the strength score. Not sure about the armor, but it is nice and different. The story of being a thief and burglar... I would avoid the armor check penalty, but it could be more of an indication of a change, Veleno is perhaps turning from his past. Sometimes I get caught up in the numbers and overlook play style.

  5. Chainmail prof is a bad feat to take for this character. With Leather your AC is only one less, and will rise as you add to Dex. Part of your problem is needing that 13 Con to qualify for that feat, you could spend those 3 points somewhere else, like raising your Strength one more and bumping your Cha up to 10 if you wanted.

    If you don't want to go with the more burly type of rogue consider changing your style from ruthless ruffian to Brutal. Brutal rogues use daggers, which fit with a shadowy, covert rogue.

    I like the concept, and cleric multiclassing is cool. The thing is you *can* be more of a cleric. Now that you have taken the multiclass feat, you can take the power replacement feats to add cleric powers to your rogue powers. And, if you chose paragon multiclassing you will be about 50/50 cleric rogue (discounting utilities, which you never retrain). The only problem is that a low wisdom and strength means that you will be a less than effective cleric.

    I propose this array:
    Str - 17
    Con - 10
    Dex - 17
    Int - 10
    Wis - 13
    Cha - 8

    Putting points into Str and Dex as you gain them. You will make a super Brutal rogue, and will be able to take Cleric powers that utilize Str.

    Just some advice, play what you want, have fun!


  6. I love the character builder myself and have made a couple dozen characters with it. I like the ability to quickly build the character at several different levels to get an idea of where you want to go with him, play with options and so on.

    I think multiclassing in general is something that is still fairly misunderstood because of the way it reads. It doesn't look like you will be making a rogue/cleric, but it will play a lot more like that than you think on initial examination.

    At 10th level, if you take all the power swaps - 1 of your 3 encounter powers will be cleric, 1 of your 3 dailies will be cleric and 1 of your 2 utilities will be cleric; plus your healing word, and a cleric skill.

    Multiclassing in 4e isn't about playing two full separate classes, its about adding the abilities of another class to enhance your own. You won't be as Cleric as the cleric, but you'll be a cleric-y rogue, if that makes sense.

  7. @Risan: yeah. i thik you have understood the feeling behind this character. I'm not happy about the armor penalty, but I think Veleno des not want anymore look like a thief when he sees himself in a mirror.

    @Jay: Probably the stats you gave me are a lot better and I understand that, but I'm not confortable playing a character with a lot af average scores and two exceptional stats like that. IMHO, or better IMHWOP (in My Humble Way Of Playing), to have stats like that I must have a strong background story to support them.

    @thasmodious: I'm not sure to go for all three the power swaps. I'm tepted by a little increase in the armor too. But is not yet decided.

  8. That's cool, I was just pointing out a way to get your character close to half rogue and half cleric. If you are not planning on going that route then ignore that whole part!

    I guess the biggest thing is that high dex paired with heavy armor is a less than optimal way to go, and your character might not shine as bright in combat as your teammates.

    If, however, he has a strong backstory and sense of self, he will shine in other places, and you will enjoy him just as much.

    Have fun...